My Road to Islam

My Road to Islam - Interview with Suhaib Webb

Introduction and Welcome

Peace be unto you, welcome to the Deen Show, which is a way of life we try to put out there for everyone to see, helping you understand Islam and listen. And we have a special guest on the Deen Show today, Suhaib Webb. As-salamu alaykum brother.

As-salamu alaykum brother. Peace be unto you, welcome to the Deen Show. Thank you for coming on the Deen Show.

Alhamdulillah, all praises to Allah, God. Thank you for coming out. How are you doing? It's my pleasure, it's good.

Everything's fine. I'm traveling around and stopped off in Chicago and found you. Alhamdulillah.

Background and Journey to Islam

So we brought you on the Deen Show today. We want to ask you a few questions. We heard that you weren't always Muslim. How long ago did you accept Islam? I became Muslim 15 years ago at the age of 20. At the age of 20. And before this you were? I was a Christian.

Were you a practicing Christian? Not really, but I was raised in that environment. I was somewhat of a practicing Christian. As a Christian, what did you believe? I believed in the Trinity.

You knew what this was? Yeah, yeah, definitely. Did you ever hear of the Bible? Yeah, my grandfather was a preacher. He founded a Christian college.

As far as knowledge, I had a lot of knowledge of Christianity. So you believed in the Trinity? Yeah, the whole nine yards. Original sin, baptism.

Somebody died for your sins? Yeah, the Lamb of God, the whole nine yards. Okay, so somebody would say like man. So from a point of view of literacy, I was very literate.

My issue was I didn't believe it, so I didn't practice. So could somebody say look, this brother didn't know his Bible, this brother didn't know his Christianity? No, no, you can say that. I went to church three times a week.

Three times a week? Yeah, yeah.

Questioning the Trinity and Christian Doctrine

Okay, so at what point in your life did you make a turn? I would say early on as a youngster when I first started learning about the concept of the Trinity and just not being able to digest that God could be three or one of three, that there was a Lamb who had to be sinned to die for my sins. Who's this Lamb you're talking about? Jesus.

Jesus? When I had studied even in the church, basically the Old Testament, that God Almighty is the one who forgives sins and He's the all-powerful, magnificent, awesome God. So I was like there are two gods. There's a God of the Old Testament and there's a new Pauline-type God which appears in passages in the New Testament.

So this started to not make sense to you? Yeah, immediately it didn't make sense to me. As soon as I heard it, it didn't make sense to me. Did you go up to your higher-ups, some of the priests? I went to my mother and I asked her, you know, we believe that Jesus is the Son of God.

He died for our sins. He's a sacrificial Lamb. She said, yes.

And I said, and that's the key to salvation. Baptism is the key to salvation. And she said, yes.

Then I said, well, what about the prophets who preceded Him, who didn't believe in Him? They didn't. You know, Abraham prayed to one God. Moses prayed to one God.

Jesus Himself didn't ever acknowledge that He was God. He prayed to God Himself. So what's the deal? And she couldn't explain it to me.

Life After Leaving Christianity

Okay. Now, from here, what role did you start to lead? Did you leave Christianity? Did you go and start to investigate other religions? Yeah, most definitely. We can say all religions have a lot of beneficial things about them, especially in the area of character and so on.

So anyone who turns his back from any tradition, religious tradition, is going to collapse ethically for the most part. So I went into kind of a gang lifestyle, hip-hop lifestyle, drugs, DJing. I heard you were a DJ.

Yeah, DJing and so on and so forth, and became really immersed into that subculture at that time. Hip-hop was definitely a subculture. It wasn't, you know, like you see it now everywhere.

The Decision to Accept Islam

So tell me this. Okay, so we got away from the concept of God being a trinity. Okay, this didn't make sense.

And the whole thing, was it difficult because you had a one-way ticket, a ticket now, as Christians believe, if I take Jesus as my Lord and Savior, it's finished. I got a free ride. For some people, it's hard to disattach because it's like that lotto ticket.

No doubt that it was a tough decision to make theologically because I was raised that way for so long. So I actually took three years to become Muslim. I didn't become Muslim in like, you know, in a fly-by-night thing.

I sat down and read the Quran, read a few books about Islam. How did you get a hold of the Quran? I went to the library and checked it out. But was there something, because was there a stigma at that time like there is today about Islam? Again, because of hip-hop, I was pretty culturally literate.

So I knew what the Quran was by listening to hip-hop. So I knew that it was the book of the Muslims, and I just wanted to go read it. So something just, you were searching? And there was always a feeling in the streets that

the Muslims were right.

There was a feeling. Unfortunately, that's changed now because many Muslims are engaged in bad things in all areas, especially in the bad neighborhoods where they're selling pork and beer and poison to people. That image has been kind of hurt.

But in those days, we, because of Malcolm X specifically and his conversion, we saw Muslims as like our last anchor for salvation and to get ourselves correct. We always said, look, man, if you want to get yourself correct, go with the Muslims over there. They'll straighten you out.

Spiritual Emptiness and Finding Purpose

So this is what happened. You wanted to get straightened out or you were looking to get straightened out? Or life was kind of a mess? I had success as far as material success, but internally I was very empty. So I was asking myself, why do you feel depressed? Why do you feel sad if you have girls, the money, the DJ in the clubs, the bloods, the gang I belong to? Everything is going well, but why internally do you feel this emptiness? And then I realized that the only way to quench that spiritual thirst was to race and discover who the creator was.

The Nature of God in Islam

Can God be a man? Is that possible for God to be a man? No, not at all. Why is that? Because God is unlike His creation. If we make God like His creation, we'll start to worship His creation.

But the one who has the right to be worshipped has to be unique, different than everything else. He can't be like His creation. Because Allah says in the Quran:

There's nothing like God.

You cannot make God's image. That's why in the Old Testament it says, Do not make My image. Don't try to make the image of God.

So if we make Him creation, the first question is, what color is He? What does He look like? So you go to a church, for example, you see Ricky Martin is God. You go to another church, it's Barry White. You go to another church and it's Axel Rose.

Who's God? So when we make God a man, we immediately create injustice in society by making one man better than another man. And tell me now, you said that God can't be a man. That's quite simple.

And in Islam, it clearly differentiates God from His creation. Is that correct? How about God having a son? Can God have a son? No, He cannot. Because the same argument applies.

If He has a son, then that makes Him like His creation. Then what color was His son? What did He look like? What was His shape? What language did He speak? So immediately when we throw that into the mix, we allow other human beings to be unjust to other human beings. That's the whole doctrine of shame that you see in the Old Testament where people say that the black man is cursed or the white man is cursed because they were the sons of Noah.

And then Jesus came. And this led basically to some, you know, some very sick ideologies and philosophies.

Understanding the Term "Allah"

A few more points and then we'll come to a close. Tell us, what is Islam? But before that, real quick, you mentioned the word Allah. What is this for someone who's never heard this term Allah? What does this mean Allah? Allah is the Arabic word for God. And it's a little bit different than the English word because it cannot be given a feminine tense or a plural tense.

You just say Allah. You can't say Allah like a woman or Allahs with an S or an ES. And also it means the absolute unique possessor of attributes and qualities which nothing is even remotely like Him.

Unique, awesome in His power, extremely merciful. This is Allah. The one who has the right to be worshipped.

The name itself means the one who has the right to be worshipped. It's His right because we see people worshipping things all the time, brother. Worshipping drugs, worshipping cars, worshipping girls, worshipping fame, worshipping their bodies.

When we work out, you see all them guys looking in the mirror. You just lifted weights. You know, you didn't change, man. There's not that much blood being pumped into your muscles right now. But the idea of worship is innate to the human being. We've been created to worship.

So if we don't worship the creator, we'll worship something else. And that leads to destruction. So Allah, the name is the one who has the right to be worshipped alone, subhanahu wa ta'ala.

Islamic View on Crucifixion and Respect for Other Religions

Makes perfect sense. Tell us, what does Islam say about this crucifixion and this someone dying for your sins? Number one, we respect other religions and when we talk about them, we shouldn't be rude or aggressive. Absolutely not.

Allah says:

In the Quran, it says, you are forbidden to insult other people's gods. Absolutely. So when we discuss this, this is for the sake of information.

But of course, as you know, the Quran clearly states:

that they did not crucify Jesus. They did not fulfill their dream of crucifying. But it was only an image or a likeness of Jesus, so we do not believe that he was crucified. He was raised to the heavens, peace be upon him, and he will be sent back not as a prophet or the son of God but as a human being and as a member of the Muslim community toward the end of time.

Original Goodness vs. Original Sin

What about this original sin or someone dying for your sins? We believe in original goodness brother. We don't believe in original sin.

We're not going to give a murderer an excuse for killing somebody. We're not going to give a madman who goes out and harms people or molests little children recently. I saw a man he killed a nine-year-old girl. That's why

terrorism in Islam is forbidden, is forbidden to kill people. Those people could not use as an excuse that they were born into original sin. We say no, you're born into original goodness. What you do with yourself?

And there's a book now by a guy named Mark Hauser from the University of Harvard called the Moral Minds.

And he says every human being is equipped with a natural moral compass which leads them to be good people if they develop that. So we don't believe in original sin. You know, if you owe money, and I owe money, hey you got to take care of your own debt. I have to take care of my own. But it's not fair to blame you for my debt. That would be injustice and God is not unjust.

What Makes Islam Unique

Yes, we can go on and on with all these and we're just trying to hit some points to give you a beautiful taste about Islam. Tell us brother, what is so unique about Islam? Because we hear that so many people, women are coming to Islam even more than men, is that so? What's so unique about it?

I think one thing is first of all the propaganda or the negative actions of Muslims out there creating in people's minds the nightmare image of what Muslims are and who Muslims are. But once they get close to our community, they, you know, they eat some chicken bones with this man. They hang out with us, they see how we are, they see that we're people from the community. We're here working for the good of America. We're not out here to harm anyone and do anything wrong. It kind of flips them out and that causes them to say man, these people are actually really nice decent people, are very loving people, concerned people.

Because Islam is pushing us not only to be good to our Lord, but the other important aspect of Islam is to be good to its creation no matter who they are. Once a Jewish man, his funeral passed by the Prophet as related by Imam Al-Bukhari, and the Prophet stood up and the companion said how could you stand up? He said this is a soul. This is a human being.

So when people see that we're not the terrorist, you know, hijack type that's on TV, the madman who's gonna jump on a plane and do something wrong or harm someone, you know, they're shocked, and then they want to learn and they see man, they believe in Abraham, they believe in Joseph, they believe in Mary, they believe in David and Solomon. I didn't know that. I thought they only believed in some Arab guy. You know, and then they don't want to kill us, they don't hate the white man.

So they see all of the true things about Islam, the simplicity of Islam to worship God, to pray, to be good to others. And they fall for it man because they say wow this is the truth. So these things touch my heart, and I already know these things. I can imagine someone who's really got a sincere heart and open mind. I mean this just goes down easy.

Islam and Terrorism

Does Islam have anything to do with terrorism? Not at all. Islam does not have anything to do with terrorism and we categorically denounce without any reservation all acts of indiscriminate violence all over the world, in America or on any foreign land. Any act that's committed against innocent civilians and innocent people is completely forbidden in Islam.

Tell us what the Prophet said that a woman who killed a cat, she tortured her cat, like now we have Michael Vick, right, he's in trouble for torturing dogs. I was thinking the Prophet told the woman who tortured the cat, like the woman who has this quality if she doesn't repent, she's gonna go to hell. If that's the case of a cat brother, what about human beings who live around us every day?

Understanding Prophethood

You said prophet a few times, and then you said peace be upon him. So I saw him, what? For someone's like prophet, who they talking about, this prophet? Can you explain? This is Prophet Muhammad and all of the prophets. We believe had the same message.

When did this man, when did he die? He was alive in the 7th century after Jesus, peace be upon him. This has nothing to do with an Elijah Muhammad or anything. None of this, no Clarence X Muhammad the 15th, none of this. This was 1,400 years ago.

1,400 years ago. What did this man bring and what did he call the people to? He brought a mercy as is mentioned in the Quran. He was sent as a mercy to humanity and he brought justice to people, he brought equality to people. He brought the message of one God to the people. And he brought the idea that in order to be a good worshipper of God you have to be also good to the people. Both of these are combined.

That's why he said a woman, a man, and I sent a couple, the best of you in faith are the best of you in character. So he didn't just bring the pharisaical understanding of religion, but he revived the message of all of the prophets to serve God and serve the people around you. If you can fulfill both of you, you got it made man.

So that's the main message of Islam to worship your Lord with all your heart, one God? Yes, and be good to the people. And be good to the people.

Avoiding Self-Made Religion

We're gonna cut out just a couple more questions. Tell us now for the person that, okay, he's born Christian, he's born in this faith or whatever. Like I said, we're trying to educate the people because there's a lot of distortion out there about Islam. But tell us for the person that, you know what, I'm gonna take a little bit from the Christianity, I'm gonna take a little bit from what I think, you know, is the best way to get to God. Is this acceptable? Because you see that a lot of, what do you call this? If you prescribe organized, really I don't want to be for any organized.

If you prescribe ecumenical, if you prescribe your own religion for yourself, then you became God, you become a God, you're God because you're the one dictating what's right and what's wrong. But you have to submit, you have to admit, look, there's certain things that I just don't understand and don't know and I need to rely on a higher power to teach me.

But if I go to the restaurant, right, if I go to the restaurant and make up my own menu, I'm not gonna get served. I might say I want, look, hey, I want some catfish deep-fried with some broccoli and some rice and they don't serve it. So I'll be sitting there all night long with an empty plate. So although I might have visualized in my mind something, it's not reality.

Reality is you have to submit to what's on the menu and what's on the menu here is what God Almighty has prescribed because He knows better. He knows better than we do. We have to forfeit that. Allah says:

in the Quran that says does God not know more than you about you, about your situation? He knows what's better for you.

So we have to forfeit the desires brother and the arrogance and submit ourself to our Creator. And that's not easy.

Comparing Religions and Finding Truth

Check this out, another thing. That's not easy. All these religions claim, and this is the way, how do you get someone away from all this? How do you get someone to acknowledge that this is actually a religion, a way of life? I like to call it from the creator.

I have no problem with someone comparing religions. Go ahead and compare. That's fine. Go in and read. But for us, we say very clearly number one, the message of Islam is clear and easy for anyone to understand. Number two, the message of Islam with regards to other people is very clear and easy to understand. Number three, if someone researches the Quran, researches the statements of the Prophet, they will not find one inaccuracy in the Quran or one inaccuracy in the statements of the Prophet, peace be upon him. And that right there is enough to lead you.

You don't have in the Quran the gospel according to this person and the gospel according to this person. This is the book of Allah.

What's in It for Me?

Benefits before we close, we want to know, people want to know what's up. If I'm gonna submit, I'm gonna give up all the women and all the good times. You know, I'm young, I'm strong and I'm ready to go. But now you're talking about submitting and you know, leaving all these good times. What's in it for me in this life? And here, are all those really good times?

That's the first question. We used to come home drinking wine, thought we had some good times, got in right at 5 a.m. You know, the club closed. Yeah, you feel like a wreck. Yes, okay, and then later on in your life, you start getting sick because of how you lived your life. So number one, are those really good times or those just perceived good times?

There's a woman who goes to the club and gets used by a different guy every week. Is this really a good time? A woman who walks around with no clothes on and people are salivating over her like she's a piece of hamburger meat in the window. Is this really a good time? Look at Britney Spears. Look at Lindsay Lohan.

Look at the finest women, so-called finest women in America, Beyonce. Look at their lives. They're cracking in front of our very eyes, going to drug rehab, having problems with their children. And we pray to God that God will help them to be good mothers. But we're seeing in front of our eyes those people who had the best of times, are those really the best of times? This is the worst of times.

So let's ask ourselves, are these really the best of times when we make our desires and our passions a God? Those are not the best of times. So by overcoming your desires and gaining some self-discipline, you gain a feeling that you never had before of serving your Creator.

How to Become a Muslim

For the person now that is penetrated his heart and he's like, what do I do now? How does someone become a Muslim? Needs to get in contact with someone? But before there's that, all he has to do is say I bear witness that there's no God but God and that Muhammad is the messenger in the Arabic.

Closing Comments

Closing comments for our viewers. I just want to encourage people to get to know their Muslim neighbors, to spend some time with us. And you'll see inshallah, God willing, a good community, a very beneficial community for the people here in America. And may God bless everyone brother.

I'd like to thank you so much for coming on the Deen Show. JazakAllah khair. May God reward you for your efforts. Thank you. We hope to see you again on the show